Yesterday, I put together my take on the Marlins' greatest lineup. It was based on the best individual seasons in a Marlins uniform, with no repetitions:
1. Luis Castillo, 2B (2000) - .334/.418/.388, 62SB, 101R
2. Hanley Ramirez, SS (2007) - .332/.386/.562, 51SB, 125R, 29HR
3. Gary Sheffield, RF (1996) - .314/.465/.624, 42HR, 118R, 120RBI, 142BB
4. Miguel Cabrera, 3B (2006) - .339/.430/.568, 26HR, 50 doubles, 112R, 114RBI
5. Cliff Floyd, LF (2001) - .317/.390/.578, 31HR, 123R, 103RBI
6. Jeff Conine, 1B (1995) - .302/.379/.520, 25HR, 105RBI
7. Pudge Rodriguez, C (2003) - .297/.369/.474, 16HR, 90R
8. Juan Pierre, CF (2003) - .305/.361/.373, 65SB, 100R
Here is my proposed Bench:
1. 4th OF (LF, RF, 1B, 3B) - Kevin Millar (2001) - .314/.374/.557, 20HR, 39 doubles
2. IN (3B, 2B) - Mike Lowell (2003) - .276/.350/.530, 32HR, 105RBI
3. IN (1B) - Derrek Lee (2003) - .271/.379/.508, 31HR, 21SB
4. 5th OF (CF) - Preston Wilson (1999) - .280/.350/.502, 26HR, 11SB
5. IN/PR (SS) - Edgar Renteria (1996) - .309/.358/.399, 16 SB/2 CS
6. C - (C) - Charles Johnson (1997) - .250/.347/.454, 19HR
Now it's time to look at the pitching side of things. I'll be going with 5 starters, 5 true relievers, and a spot starter (who could pitch in relief or start in place of injury, as is common on many rosters):
Rotation:
1. Kevin Brown (1996) - 17-11, 1.89 ERA, 159 K, 3 CGSO, 0.944 WHIP, 233.0 IP
2. Dontrelle Willis (2005) - 22-10, 2.63 ERA, 170 K, 5 CGSO, 1.134 WHIP, 236.3 IP
3. Carl Pavano (2004) - 18-8, 3.00 ERA, 139 K, 2 CGSO, 1.174 WHIP, 222.3 IP
4. Al Leiter (1996) - 16-12, 2.93 ERA, 200 K, 1.263 WHIP, 215.3 IP, No-Hitter
5. Josh Beckett (2005) - 15-8, 3.38 ERA, 166 K, 1.181 WHIP, 178.7 IP
Bullpen:
Closer: Armando Benitez (2004) - 1.29 ERA, 47 SV, 62 K, 0.818 WHIP, 69.7 IP
Setup: Brian Harvey (1993) - 1.70 ERA, 73 K, 0.841 WHIP, 69.0 IP
Middle Relief: Robb Nen (1996) - 1.95 ERA, 92 K, 1.060 WHIP, 83.0 IP
Long Relief: Todd Jones (2005) - 2.10 ERA, 62 K, 1.027 WHIP, 73.0 IP
Lefty Specialist: Vic Darensbourg (1998) - vs. lefties, .168/.264/.206
Spot Starter: Alex Fernandez (1997) - 17-12, 3.59 ERA, 183 K, 1.187 WHIP, 220.7 IP
This is a phenomenal team with few weak spots. Of course, many of these players had fluke years (Millar, Pavano, Todd Jones, Darensbourg). Let's break down the years of representation:
1993 - Brian Harvey
1994 - (Strike Year)
1995 - Jeff Conine
1996 - Gary Sheffield, Edgar Renteria, Kevin Brown, Al Leiter, Robb Nen
1997 - Charles Johnson, Alex Fernandez
1998 - Vic Darensbourg
1999 - Preston Wilson
2000 - Luis Castillo
2001 - Cliff Floyd, Kevin Millar
2002 - None
2003 - Pudge Rodriguez, Juan Pierre, Mike Lowell, Derrek Lee
2004 - Carl Pavano, Armando Benitez
2005 - Dontrelle Willis, Josh Beckett, Todd Jones
2006 - Miguel Cabrera
2007 - Hanley Ramirez
(All non-strike years represented except 2002)
Just how well would this team stack up in today's league? I say they'd win 120 games and become the best team of all-time. What are your thoughts?
Stay tuned for a position-by-position breakdown from Amazin' Amezaga over the next couple weeks. We'll find out how much he agrees with me.
Let us know your thoughts!
Thursday, March 27, 2008
Marlins Dream Team Continued
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13 comments:
I had no idea Benitez had such a good year in 2004. I just assumed he must have always been terrible.
How does Vic Darensbourg make it onto this team? Is he really the best lefty reliever the Marlins have ever had? I find that hard to believe. If he is, I'd just drop the lefty specialist altogether (that's what the Marlins did in the 2003 WS).
Otherwise, pretty good job. Amazing how good Todd Jones and Kevin Millar were.
Marlins Fan,
I thought the same thing about Darensbourg, but there really weren't any better choices. Taylor Tankersley in 2006 was a possibility, but he wasn't especially good versus lefties. Other candidates were Dennis Cook and Armando Almanza.
its too bad they weren't able to hold on to any of those guys.. although if all goes to plan, Hanley Ramirez will win a world series in 2010, then end up on the yankees
I saw Armando close out game 161 at the tail end of his amazing 2004 (against the Phillies) and despite his great year had no faith in him. I think he loaded the bases and got out of it in typical fashion.
Why are there so few people from '97 on here? I seem to recall that the '97 team was pretty much a motley crew of hired hands that were all really good. Where are they on here?
Actually that's a huge myth. Everyone thinks the Marlins bought a championship in 1997, but they acquired most of them in 1996. Kevin Brown and Al Leiter were both '96 holdovers. The three real pickups were Alex Fernandez (who didn't pitch past Game 2 of the NLCS, btw), Moises Alou, and Bobby Bonilla.
Every team signs 3 FAs a year. The Marlins won on smart signings and a farm that included Charles Johnson, Edgar Renteria, Livan Hernandez, and Tony Saunders. The Marlins DID NOT BUY A CHAMPIONSHIP
Leaving Bobby Bonilla off this team is absurd. He was the heart and soul of the 1997 Marlins, and everyone knows it.
Who is your manager? Jim Leyland in 1997? Jack McKeon in 2003? Gotta be Leyland since he was there for the full season.
You should also do an all-time team, without reference to particular seasons. And Charlie Hough should be on it.
I know Conine is Mr. Marlin and all, but picking him over Lee is crazy. Other than that, looks good. Amazing how many good closers the Marlins have had in such a short time.
some of you are getting caught up in the names..
just look at those numbers
who cares if it's Vic Darensbourg or Conine over DLee, it's the numbers that count
I like the list, simple and by the numbers.
I doesn't take defense into account though, since you would have the two most error-prone defenders in Cabrera and Ramirez on the left side. I love them, but cmon, you gotta consider Renteria over Hanley just for the defense, and Lowell over Cabrera also for the Gold Glove.
120 wins though? I doubt it. recall that in both WS wins they were under 100 wins, but caught lightning in a bottle.
I would see you use the numbers to try to figure the wins and losses using VORP or some similar measures.
I have always wondered how the Marlins would have done defending their title if the 1998 team had been retained. You know, use their 1998 numbers compare it with the 1997 numbers, and decide if they would have had more wins, had enough to get the wildcard, and that would give us an idea if Huizenga REALLY blew a chance at a dynasty.
Great analysis. I would consider Lee over Conine for defense too. In fact, your starting infield (other than Castillo) is not the best defensive lineup.
Regardless, great work.
When I made the list, I was thinking only of offense. I completely agree with you guys about the defensive lapses.
If defense were taken into account, I would go with Lee over Conine at 1B and move Cabrera to LF. Lowell would take 3B and Cliff Floyd would become a VERY strong option off the bench.
Despite Renteria's superior defense, I would still keep Hanley there (just my opinion). His season was so incredible last year that he can't be left out.
I'm thinking of putting together an all-defense dream team for my next piece. Maybe you guys will find that interesting too.
Thanks so much for commenting. I really appreciate it.
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